Hate Speech

GO TO ADMIN PANEL > ADD-ONS AND INSTALL VERTIFORO SIDEBAR TO SEE FORUMS AND SIDEBAR

Eddie

The Writer
#1
Should hate Speech be illegal? Why or why not?

Does hate speech fall under free speech?

What constitutes as hate Speech?
 
#2
NO

NO

NO.

If any form of speech - any - is banned, it silences people. We cannot allow that to happen. I believe hate speech is speech that is intentionally harmful to a person or group of persons. Notice I said speech, so just words. Nothing physical. And yes, hate speech falls under free speech. If a person is not allowed to speak their mind, no matter how ridiculous and/or harmful it may be, then there is nothing that constitutes them as a person other than flesh. Hate speech should ALWAYS be legal.
 

Eddie

The Writer
#3
NO

NO

NO.

If any form of speech - any - is banned, it silences people. We cannot allow that to happen. I believe hate speech is speech that is intentionally harmful to a person or group of persons. Notice I said speech, so just words. Nothing physical. And yes, hate speech falls under free speech. If a person is not allowed to speak their mind, no matter how ridiculous and/or harmful it may be, then there is nothing that constitutes them as a person other than flesh. Hate speech should ALWAYS be legal.
Should it be against the law to misgender people?
 
#4
Should it be against the law to misgender people?
No lmao. There's two genders: male and female. You can mutilate yourself all you want and change your sex, but you're still either a male or female based off your chromosomes, XX or XY. And for the extremely rare cases of people who have fucked up chromosomes, sure call yourself whatever you want.

Again, that would fall under free speech. Harrassment is free speech. If you're purposely calling a man a woman or vice versa, OR you're trying to harass someone with a mental illness (aka transgender people), you still can do that. Free speech. So no, it should not be against the law.
 

Eddie

The Writer
#5
No lmao. There's two genders: male and female. You can mutilate yourself all you want and change your sex, but you're still either a male or female based off your chromosomes, XX or XY. And for the extremely rare cases of people who have fucked up chromosomes, sure call yourself whatever you want.

Again, that would fall under free speech. Harrassment is free speech. If you're purposely calling a man a woman or vice versa, OR you're trying to harass someone with a mental illness (aka transgender people), you still can do that. Free speech. So no, it should not be against the law.

Just so you know I haven't stated an opinion on this manner, I've asked what people think
 

Dingo

Magic Sky Dog
#6
Yes, it absolutely should be illegal. @wildhogking is arguing from a philosophical standpoint. Unfortunately, philosophy doesn't carry into real-world policies. Looking at this from a legal standpoint, hate speech should be illegal.

Under current law, it is against the law to say certain things. For example, yelling "Fire!" in a public venue when there is no such threat, threatening to kill someone, or talking someone into killing themselves are all illegal, despite being only words. These are clear-cut cases where the intent is to harm an individual or group. US laws have proclaimed these activities illegal.

Hate speech is designed to do the same--to hurt an individual or group. Sometimes the damage is only mental, but that is still real, lasting damage. People can argue up and down about "sensitive snowflakes", but medical science and psychology both agree (and have evidence) that mental trauma is real, lasting, and irreversible.

Beyond that, hate speech can sometimes drive harmful actions, as well. A bullied individual may complete suicide, or may fatally attack the bully. It can lead to "hate mobs" (see the early 1900s' lynch mobs for a well-defined example of hate mobs).

It is fairly clear that hate speech is a direct violation of a person's rights and freedoms. It is a direct violation of their very health. Thus, it should be outlawed.

Additionally, harassment is against the law in the United States. Just to clear that up.
 

Eddie

The Writer
#7
Yes, it absolutely should be illegal. @wildhogking is arguing from a philosophical standpoint. Unfortunately, philosophy doesn't carry into real-world policies. Looking at this from a legal standpoint, hate speech should be illegal.

Under current law, it is against the law to say certain things. For example, yelling "Fire!" in a public venue when there is no such threat, threatening to kill someone, or talking someone into killing themselves are all illegal, despite being only words. These are clear-cut cases where the intent is to harm an individual or group. US laws have proclaimed these activities illegal.

Hate speech is designed to do the same--to hurt an individual or group. Sometimes the damage is only mental, but that is still real, lasting damage. People can argue up and down about "sensitive snowflakes", but medical science and psychology both agree (and have evidence) that mental trauma is real, lasting, and irreversible.

Beyond that, hate speech can sometimes drive harmful actions, as well. A bullied individual may complete suicide, or may fatally attack the bully. It can lead to "hate mobs" (see the early 1900s' lynch mobs for a well-defined example of hate mobs).

It is fairly clear that hate speech is a direct violation of a person's rights and freedoms. It is a direct violation of their very health. Thus, it should be outlawed.

Additionally, harassment is against the law in the United States. Just to clear that up.
For arguments sake, not stating my own opinion

Should there be a clear meaning of what hate speech is? If you just label as something that can hurt someone else, can't you say anything is hurtful? What if people say that someone sharing their basic religion is hurtful, should that be illegal?

What if people find stated opinions such as believing that homosexuality is wrong as hateful, or believing that there are only 2 genders as hateful.

Should misgendering be illegal?

Where is the line?

I'm not saying this my opinion I'm just probing you
 

Dingo

Magic Sky Dog
#8
For arguments sake, not stating my own opinion

Should there be a clear meaning of what hate speech is? If you just label as something that can hurt someone else, can't you say anything is hurtful? What if people say that someone sharing their basic religion is hurtful, should that be illegal?

What if people find stated opinions such as believing that homosexuality is wrong as hateful, or believing that there are only 2 genders as hateful.

Where is the line?

I'm not saying this my opinion Zelda I'm just probing you
No, that's a good question.

But yes, I believe there should be clear definitions of what is considered hate speech, just as there are clear legal definitions of "intent" when it comes to murder, or any other legal terms. I can jokingly go into the chat, say I'm gonna kill @Fallout God for saying that "Jar Jar is Snoke", and no court will take it seriously as a threat.

As far as where the line is, it would be dictated by society of the time. We live in a world where, like it or not, there are people who identify as something other than the binary genders. We live in a world where homosexuality--and most "deviant" forms of sexuality as a whole--are not only permissible but are legal. Basically, someone can say that they find a man being with another man offensive to them, but it does no harm to them. On the other hand, calling that man anything derogatory can do harm to him. There's your line.
 

Eddie

The Writer
#9
No, that's a good question.

But yes, I believe there should be clear definitions of what is considered hate speech, just as there are clear legal definitions of "intent" when it comes to murder, or any other legal terms. I can jokingly go into the chat, say I'm gonna kill @Fallout God for saying that "Jar Jar is Snoke", and no court will take it seriously as a threat.

As far as where the line is, it would be dictated by society of the time. We live in a world where, like it or not, there are people who identify as something other than the binary genders. We live in a world where homosexuality--and most "deviant" forms of sexuality as a whole--are not only permissible but are legal. Basically, someone can say that they find a man being with another man offensive to them, but it does no harm to them. On the other hand, calling that man anything derogatory can do harm to him. There's your line.
What if the religious person calls a homosexual, a sinner?

I'm not religious, so this wouldn't he me by the way

Also forgot to say this before, but should misgendering be illegal?
 

Fallout God

Fallout God of Assassin's Effect
#10
No, that's a good question.

But yes, I believe there should be clear definitions of what is considered hate speech, just as there are clear legal definitions of "intent" when it comes to murder, or any other legal terms. I can jokingly go into the chat, say I'm gonna kill @Fallout God for saying that "Jar Jar is Snoke", and no court will take it seriously as a threat.

As far as where the line is, it would be dictated by society of the time. We live in a world where, like it or not, there are people who identify as something other than the binary genders. We live in a world where homosexuality--and most "deviant" forms of sexuality as a whole--are not only permissible but are legal. Basically, someone can say that they find a man being with another man offensive to them, but it does no harm to them. On the other hand, calling that man anything derogatory can do harm to him. There's your line.
Still waiting for that intricate revenge...
 

Dingo

Magic Sky Dog
#11
What of the religious person calls a homosexual, a sinner?

I'm not religious, so this wouldn't he me by the way
Sinner is merely a statement of being rather an offensive term. In fact, a truly religious person would understand that we're all sinners. Kinda the whole point being Christ coming and dying was to forgive our sins. So that wouldn't be hate speech.
 

Eddie

The Writer
#13
Sinner is merely a statement of being rather an offensive term. In fact, a truly religious person would understand that we're all sinners. Kinda the whole point being Christ coming and dying was to forgive our sins. So that wouldn't be hate speech.
Yeah, I know I just wanted to see what you say.

One last thing, should misgendering be illegal?
 

Dingo

Magic Sky Dog
#14
Yeah, I know I just wanted to see what you say.

One last thing, should misgendering be illegal?
That's more of a gray area, because misgendering often happens out of plain ignorance rather than intentional hatred. This is a relatively new thing to society, so I would say unless someone is misgendering another with clear intent to harm them, no.
 
#15
Yes, it absolutely should be illegal. @wildhogking is arguing from a philosophical standpoint. Unfortunately, philosophy doesn't carry into real-world policies. Looking at this from a legal standpoint, hate speech should be illegal.

Under current law, it is against the law to say certain things. For example, yelling "Fire!" in a public venue when there is no such threat, threatening to kill someone, or talking someone into killing themselves are all illegal, despite being only words. These are clear-cut cases where the intent is to harm an individual or group. US laws have proclaimed these activities illegal.

Hate speech is designed to do the same--to hurt an individual or group. Sometimes the damage is only mental, but that is still real, lasting damage. People can argue up and down about "sensitive snowflakes", but medical science and psychology both agree (and have evidence) that mental trauma is real, lasting, and irreversible.

Beyond that, hate speech can sometimes drive harmful actions, as well. A bullied individual may complete suicide, or may fatally attack the bully. It can lead to "hate mobs" (see the early 1900s' lynch mobs for a well-defined example of hate mobs).

It is fairly clear that hate speech is a direct violation of a person's rights and freedoms. It is a direct violation of their very health. Thus, it should be outlawed.

Additionally, harassment is against the law in the United States. Just to clear that up.
I agree on your first point, threats and things meant to directly harm someone or cause chaos should be outlawed, although there should be a very specific and non-vague outline of what counts as a threat, so we don't lead into a slippery slope scenario. Which is my main problem with the rest of your points.

It isn't common. Hate speech, general edginess, and everything in between is rampant on the internet, and it doesn't cause people to do that. It's everywhere. I was looking through the reports like 20 minutes ago on THIS site and there was a reported message because someone said 'fuck jews'. Even though I totally think absolutely anyone should be allowed to say that, that is definitely hate speech. A joke or not, it's hateful and it's speech. In the few cases where someone is physically harmed from hate speech, a thorough investigation is instigated. And I agree with that.

If someone kills themself, or cuts, or driven to depression or something because of online harassment, they should tell somebody in the real world and have an investigation done to see if the harassers were truly intending to hurt them. If not, then they should warn the harasser or perhaps fine them lightly, and get the victim help. If they did truly intend to hurt the victim or make them hurt themselves, then they should be prosecuted fairly.

Hate mobs are particularly uncommon nowadays, and in America I would say they are probably more seen throughout the left, which is typically the side proclaimed AGAINST hate speech. Look at the protests after the Trump inauguration. They ran through the streets of huge cities, committing vandalism and littering, waving signs that say "RAPE MELANIA" or hoping that the PRESIDENT WAS KILLED.

I don't think it's direct at all. If people are constantly telling me to kill myself and calling me offensive names and words, I'm not going to do anything. I mean honestly this may sound like an asshole thing to say but it's practical: just don't do it. And if you're really that sensitive to words on a screen, should you be putting yourself in situations where people are gonna call you those things? It's not like you're being hunted down and harassed. Just close the computer screen and go read a book, or go to the gym, or whatever. I think it is more of a violation of personal rights and freedoms to not be able to say what you want to say just because some prissy on the other side of the screen is too sensitive and can't take it.

So still, I don't think it should be outlawed. Also of course there's the whole slippery slope thing where if they ban one form of speech it's easier to ban another and we don't wanna go down that road bla bla bla everyone's heard that argument before.
 

Dingo

Magic Sky Dog
#16
I agree on your first point, threats and things meant to directly harm someone or cause chaos should be outlawed, although there should be a very specific and non-vague outline of what counts as a threat, so we don't lead into a slippery slope scenario. Which is my main problem with the rest of your points.

It isn't common. Hate speech, general edginess, and everything in between is rampant on the internet, and it doesn't cause people to do that. It's everywhere. I was looking through the reports like 20 minutes ago on THIS site and there was a reported message because someone said 'fuck jews'. Even though I totally think absolutely anyone should be allowed to say that, that is definitely hate speech. A joke or not, it's hateful and it's speech. In the few cases where someone is physically harmed from hate speech, a thorough investigation is instigated. And I agree with that.

If someone kills themself, or cuts, or driven to depression or something because of online harassment, they should tell somebody in the real world and have an investigation done to see if the harassers were truly intending to hurt them. If not, then they should warn the harasser or perhaps fine them lightly, and get the victim help. If they did truly intend to hurt the victim or make them hurt themselves, then they should be prosecuted fairly.

Hate mobs are particularly uncommon nowadays, and in America I would say they are probably more seen throughout the left, which is typically the side proclaimed AGAINST hate speech. Look at the protests after the Trump inauguration. They ran through the streets of huge cities, committing vandalism and littering, waving signs that say "RAPE MELANIA" or hoping that the PRESIDENT WAS KILLED.

I don't think it's direct at all. If people are constantly telling me to kill myself and calling me offensive names and words, I'm not going to do anything. I mean honestly this may sound like an asshole thing to say but it's practical: just don't do it. And if you're really that sensitive to words on a screen, should you be putting yourself in situations where people are gonna call you those things? It's not like you're being hunted down and harassed. Just close the computer screen and go read a book, or go to the gym, or whatever. I think it is more of a violation of personal rights and freedoms to not be able to say what you want to say just because some prissy on the other side of the screen is too sensitive and can't take it.

So still, I don't think it should be outlawed. Also of course there's the whole slippery slope thing where if they ban one form of speech it's easier to ban another and we don't wanna go down that road bla bla bla everyone's heard that argument before.
I think, oddly enough, we're saying the same thing in different ways.
 

Chatroom

Top