Hate Speech

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CJTreader

Moderator
Staff member
Premium Member
#21
I just think it's a bad idea to Illegalize 'hate'-speech as the term is incredibly ambiguous. Illegalizing obvious things like calls to genocide can easily turn into the illegalizing controversial ideas like holocaust denial and proclaiming that transgender are mentally ill along with the criticism of ideas such as saying to that Islam is an idealogy of hate. Also, certain expressions of humor will inevitably be illegalized. Just look at the UK and you'll know the type of Orwellian shit I'm talking about. In addition, 'hate'-speech laws validate and insulate bad ideas. If you're a holocaust-denier, for instance, that bad idea can be brought out in the open, challenged, and debunked. That's the marketplace of free ideas at works. With 'hate'-speech laws these people only share their ideas with like-minded individuals for fear of detainment. This shields those bad ideas from being challenged and breeds an idea that they're being censored because the establishment has no good arguments against these bad ideas. 'hate'-speech laws are fundamentally flawed and only breed bad ideas. As to whether 'hate'-speech laws violate freedom of speech, I think it's obvious they do. Calls to action really aren't comparable to criticism of people or ideas or expressing taboo ideas
 

Kkgames35

Known Poster
#22
Geez all of these super long posts about this XD. It seems like everyone could write an essay about this where I'm sitting back here with my opinion but don't have any info backing it up. I say I don't care just as long as it isn't breaking the rights that the US Constitution gives us.
 

Meetch

Known Poster
Rad Member
#23
I think if you're purposely trying to hurt those around you by being racist, homophobic, trans-phobic... whatever, that causes the person on the receiving end pain (mental or physical) there should be legal repercussions. Now I don't know what its like around the rest of the world, but here in Australia at least things like that ARE illegal. There are both negative and positive outcomes of these hate speech laws though. I don't think it should be illegal to say stupid shit online that's racist, homophobic etc if you're not saying it too a person. I mean, its a waste of resources to go after members of 4Chan, right? If you're actively harassing and stalking someone online just to cause harm on the basis of sexuality, race, gender.. there should indeed be legal repercussions. That shit ain't cool. @Dingo is probably confused because I probably wouldn't have held this view 2 years ago... people change all mighty sky dog :p

Its important to remember that there is a difference between sex and gender. Obviously there is the male and female sex. There is also intersex people, who are born like that, its not their choice. A lot of people consider that a third sex and a lot of others don't. I'm not really hear to argue that though. I think that people should respect the gender identity of someone by using their preferred pronouns. Sure you don't have to agree with their choice, but actively going out of your way to tell them that they're mentally ill.. I find disgusting. Sure, I'm not trans and I don't experience gender disphoria. But I do know what mental illness is. If a large amount of people constantly, daily, kept telling me that I have a mental illness I'd feel bullied and harassed because they're using it to just hurt me. So I do think their should be legal repercussions for purposely, constantly going out of your way to hurt someone on the basis of their gender identity and of course on the basis of their sex. If someone is intersex, that has nothing to do with mental illness.

That's just my two cents. About 2 years ago I certainly wouldn't agree entirely with what I just said, but please do take it into consideration. I have a few friends who are in fact transgender and I more or less can understand now we're they're coming from.

Lemme know what you think :)
 

CJTreader

Moderator
Staff member
Premium Member
#24
I think if you're purposely trying to hurt those around you by being racist, homophobic, trans-phobic... whatever, that causes the person on the receiving end pain (mental or physical) there should be legal repercussions. Now I don't know what its like around the rest of the world, but here in Australia at least things like that ARE illegal. There are both negative and positive outcomes of these hate speech laws though. I don't think it should be illegal to say stupid shit online that's racist, homophobic etc if you're not saying it too a person. I mean, its a waste of resources to go after members of 4Chan, right? If you're actively harassing and stalking someone online just to cause harm on the basis of sexuality, race, gender.. there should indeed be legal repercussions. That shit ain't cool. @Dingo is probably confused because I probably wouldn't have held this view 2 years ago... people change all mighty sky dog :p

Its important to remember that there is a difference between sex and gender. Obviously there is the male and female sex. There is also intersex people, who are born like that, its not their choice. A lot of people consider that a third sex and a lot of others don't. I'm not really hear to argue that though. I think that people should respect the gender identity of someone by using their preferred pronouns. Sure you don't have to agree with their choice, but actively going out of your way to tell them that they're mentally ill.. I find disgusting. Sure, I'm not trans and I don't experience gender disphoria. But I do know what mental illness is. If a large amount of people constantly, daily, kept telling me that I have a mental illness I'd feel bullied and harassed because they're using it to just hurt me. So I do think their should be legal repercussions for purposely, constantly going out of your way to hurt someone on the basis of their gender identity and of course on the basis of their sex. If someone is intersex, that has nothing to do with mental illness.

That's just my two cents. About 2 years ago I certainly wouldn't agree entirely with what I just said, but please do take it into consideration. I have a few friends who are in fact transgender and I more or less can understand now we're they're coming from.

Lemme know what you think :)
When it comes to the issue of gender dysphoria, yeah, it's definitely a prick move to call a transgender person mentally ill or refuse to use their pronouns. That's the whole issue. We shouldn't silence a contention-especially a possibly true contention-just because it hurts people's feelings. If people's feelings are to be legally protected, are we also to illegalized personal insults? Silencing the opposition just avoids progress. I don't think it's the job of the government to police speech in such a way.
 
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Meetch

Known Poster
Rad Member
#25
When it comes to the issue of gender dysphoria, yeah, it's definitely a prick move to call a transgender person mentally ill or refuse to use their pronouns. That's the whole issue. We shouldn't silence a contention-especially a possibly true contention-just because it hurts people's feelings. If people's feelings are to be legally protected, are we also to illegalized personal insults? Silencing the opposition just avoids progress. I don't think it's the job of the government to police speech in such a way.
To be fair, I said its a waste of time to police people on places like 4Chan. AND its not worth policing general disagreement. I'm not and never will be four policing peoples general speech/disagreements, only having punishment for those who actively go out of their way to cause harm to others. I see a lot of TERFS for example (trans exclusionary radical feminists) saying some awful things about trans people... but we shouldn't police what they're saying. Let them say bigoted shit, that way we know who we're dealing with, and yes as you said, for progress. Its not as simple as "peoples feelings" though, constant barrages of hate and bigotry to a person isn't just "hurting their fee fees" its causing them to feel like utter shite and less of a human being. I was bullied horrendously people made up shit that I was a rapist and all these other terrible things... those weren't just people "hurting my feelings".. they were causing me serious mental problems that I still have to deal with to this day? Should those people not be punished for what they did to another human being? Remember, I'm not talking about disagreement or general speech here, I'm talking about bullying, racism, transphobia... stuff like that. Soo, wayyy beyond calling someone a dick online or a cunt.

(I'm sorry if this makes little sense, I'm really darn tired and its almost 4am :p)
 

Eddie

The Writer
#26
To be fair, I said its a waste of time to police people on places like 4Chan. AND its not worth policing general disagreement. I'm not and never will be four policing peoples general speech/disagreements, only having punishment for those who actively go out of their way to cause harm to others. I see a lot of TERFS for example (trans exclusionary radical feminists) saying some awful things about trans people... but we shouldn't police what they're saying. Let them say bigoted shit, that way we know who we're dealing with, and yes as you said, for progress. Its not as simple as "peoples feelings" though, constant barrages of hate and bigotry to a person isn't just "hurting their fee fees" its causing them to feel like utter shite and less of a human being. I was bullied horrendously people made up shit that I was a rapist and all these other terrible things... those weren't just people "hurting my feelings".. they were causing me serious mental problems that I still have to deal with to this day? Should those people not be punished for what they did to another human being? Remember, I'm not talking about disagreement or general speech here, I'm talking about bullying, racism, transphobia... stuff like that. Soo, wayyy beyond calling someone a dick online or a cunt.

(I'm sorry if this makes little sense, I'm really darn tired and its almost 4am :p)
My problem with making misgendering a hate speech crime is that most people don't understand the idea of multiple genders, and sometimes people don't know by looking and so say what comes naturally, so I don't think that should be illegal
 

CJTreader

Moderator
Staff member
Premium Member
#27
To be fair, I said its a waste of time to police people on places like 4Chan. AND its not worth policing general disagreement. I'm not and never will be four policing peoples general speech/disagreements, only having punishment for those who actively go out of their way to cause harm to others. I see a lot of TERFS for example (trans exclusionary radical feminists) saying some awful things about trans people... but we shouldn't police what they're saying. Let them say bigoted shit, that way we know who we're dealing with, and yes as you said, for progress. Its not as simple as "peoples feelings" though, constant barrages of hate and bigotry to a person isn't just "hurting their fee fees" its causing them to feel like utter shite and less of a human being. I was bullied horrendously people made up shit that I was a rapist and all these other terrible things... those weren't just people "hurting my feelings".. they were causing me serious mental problems that I still have to deal with to this day? Should those people not be punished for what they did to another human being? Remember, I'm not talking about disagreement or general speech here, I'm talking about bullying, racism, transphobia... stuff like that. Soo, wayyy beyond calling someone a dick online or a cunt.

(I'm sorry if this makes little sense, I'm really darn tired and its almost 4am :p)
I'm just a bit confused as to your stance. Are you talking about any offline speech which mentally harms someone, or are you talking strictly about harassment towards an individual?
 

guul66

Funk Police, Anti-Edgy department
#28
Hate speech should be legal. Having it be illegal would make future removal of freedom of speech easy.
Serious threats (deaththreats, threatening to cause acts of terrorism) should be illegal/punishable, because the people who make those threats can be an actual danger.
Any rally call to cause violence is the real question. Make it illegal, sure, the world is better, but what if the country turns into a corrupt tolitarian state, then its easy to excuse wiping out any people who want to bring democracy back with the phrase "They are rallying for violence."
 
#29
Hate speech should be legal. Having it be illegal would make future removal of freedom of speech easy.
Serious threats (deaththreats, threatening to cause acts of terrorism) should be illegal/punishable, because the people who make those threats can be an actual danger.
Any rally call to cause violence is the real question. Make it illegal, sure, the world is better, but what if the country turns into a corrupt tolitarian state, then its easy to excuse wiping out any people who want to bring democracy back with the phrase "They are rallying for violence."
Couldn't have said this better myself, bok bok.
 

Arch

Known Poster
#31
I think it depends on the circumstances and the words that are said... and whilst i fucking hate censorship... I have to say... yes in this day of age, it needs to be illegal with hate speech...

I'm against censorship in all shape or forms, so in that regard, i think it shouldn't be ''illegal''

However, there is a fine line i guess, but the thing is, if people could just be fucking decent to eachother and not complete assholes, but it's in our nature to be assholes, if it wasn't we wouldn't need ''hate speech'' and stuff like that, people are rotten, so we kinda need that law, because otherwise, well people get hurt.



Thing is, we're barely out of the fucking jungle, not too long ago we practiced slavery and outlawed certain acts... like being gay or lesbian.
And while that is not illegal anymore( from country to country) prejudice still exist, and the hate speech laws are there to protect from people from that.


But... I think at times the hate speech law have been used wrongfully, like most laws have.



So ...

Should it be illegal? no, it shouldn't have to be illegal, if people just could act like decent folk, we wouldn't need that law.
but it kinda NEEDS to be legal untill we've evolved past it, and that'll be a while.
 
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guul66

Funk Police, Anti-Edgy department
#32
I think it depends on the circumstances and the words that are said... and whilst i fucking hate censorship... I have to say... yes in this day of age, it needs to be illegal with hate speech...

I'm against censorship in all shape or forms, so in that regard, i think it shouldn't be ''illegal''

However, there is a fine line i guess, but the thing is, if people could just be fucking decent to eachother and not complete assholes, but it's in our nature to be assholes, if it wasn't we wouldn't need ''hate speech'' and stuff like that, people are rotten, so we kinda need that law, because otherwise, well people get hurt.



Thing is, we're barely out of the fucking jungle, not too long ago we practiced slavery and outlawed certain acts... like being gay or lesbian.
And while that is not illegal anymore( from country to country) prejudice still exist, and the hate speech laws are there to protect from people from that.


But... I think at times the hate speech law have been used wrongfully, like most laws have.



So ...

Should it be illegal? no, it shouldn't have to be illegal, if people just could act like decent folk, we wouldn't need that law.
but it kinda NEEDS to be legal untill we've evolved past it, and that'll be a while.
Its actually hooman nature to cooperate, because it increases chances of survival.
Its society, culture, etc that makes a person a dick.

But I agree. If all people were decent to eachother, the world would have half the amount of problems it has today.
 

Arch

Known Poster
#33
Its actually hooman nature to cooperate, because it increases chances of survival.
Its society, culture, etc that makes a person a dick.

But I agree. If all people were decent to eachother, the world would have half the amount of problems it has today.
you are right, but since we(humanity) started becoming ''intelligent'' we seem to have been enforcing ''Them and us''.
And the problem is that, there shouldn't be a ''them'' there should only be ''us''

We're on the same team, we're all humans and we're all living on earth, but we still oppose eachother.. and still do.


( that picture sorta sums up what i mean by that)

However people evolving past murder and bad behavior won't happen in a long long time, but the cultural crashes and prejudice about eachother is slowly becoming less and less, so i think that in 2100 atleast (provided we've not blown eachother up), hate speech will not be illegal because it won't have to be anymore, but who knows, this is just me speculating... I could be dead wrong about all of this.
 

guul66

Funk Police, Anti-Edgy department
#34
you are right, but since we(humanity) started becoming ''intelligent'' we seem to have been enforcing ''Them and us''.
And the problem is that, there shouldn't be a ''them'' there should only be ''us''

We're on the same team, we're all humans and we're all living on earth, but we still oppose eachother.. and still do.


( that picture sorta sums up what i mean by that)

However people evolving past murder and bad behavior won't happen in a long long time, but the cultural crashes and prejudice about eachother is slowly becoming less and less, so i think that in 2100 atleast (provided we've not blown eachother up), hate speech will not be illegal because it won't have to be anymore, but who knows, this is just me speculating... I could be dead wrong about all of this.
yeah i get what you mean.
 
#35
Hate speech is great, the fucking Kike globalists deserve to be called out on their bullshit.
Besides that you can't define and/or police hate speech and if you somehow do you'll become the most hated cunt around because you deserve it, literally stop oppressing people you fucking bourgeoisie cunt i'll fugging chop your bloody head off if you dare to do this Orwellian shit like nobody really wants it because nbody likes to watch what they say because oops you said a naughty word pay the guberment $500 oops you called the guberment worker a fucking Jew give us another $500 but then give us 6 million dollars on top of that because remember the holocaust goy hate speech is what the nazis used and you don't want to be a nazi do you good goy pay up and let us oppress you more and we're going to tell you how well you're behaving and give you a pat on the head
 

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