The Alex Jones Situation

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CJTreader

Moderator
Staff member
Premium Member
#1
Over the past day or so, Alex Jones, a popular right-wing conspiracy nut who founded Infowars, was banned from most major social media/content dissemination sites including Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, and Apple. His website, Infowars, was also banned. The reason given was usually hate speech, but it's unclear what exactly is being referrenced. Jones has done many horrible things in the past such as claiming the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting, along with virtually every other atrocity, was a false flag leading to the harrassment of the grieving parents. Predicably, this move has sparked much debate concerning whether it improves the public discourse and whether it could set a precedent leading to an Orwellian future. Thoughts?

If you've never heard of or watched Alex Jones, just watch this video below.
 

Monte

Founder/Forum Cowboy
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Site Founder
#2
Yes most ppl can agree alex jones is a raving lunatic. But it’s concerning that all these huge tech companies can come together and basically wipe someone clean off the internet. Especially when most of these said companies are overwhelmingly run by liberals. This is a very slippery slope, who’s next, Ben Shapiro?
 

Arch

Known Poster
#3
Over the past day or so, Alex Jones, a popular right-wing conspiracy nut who founded Infowars, was banned from most major social media/content dissemination sites including Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, and Apple. His website, Infowars, was also banned. The reason given was usually hate speech, but it's unclear what exactly is being referrenced. Jones has done many horrible things in the past such as claiming the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting, along with virtually every other atrocity, was a false flag leading to the harrassment of the grieving parents. Predicably, this move has sparked much debate concerning whether it improves the public discourse and whether it could set a precedent leading to an Orwellian future. Thoughts?

If you've never heard of or watched Alex Jones, just watch this video below.
I mean, most people do not take Alex serious, but some may and I get why there was concern, but that's no reason to remove him.

If we quiet down vocal people they will consider themselves as outcasts and band together with more outcasts that have the same belief which results in a massive **hate** circlejerk.

We need to debate and argument instead of removing these people from the platforms.
otherwise he'll get more followers that ACTUALLY believes in him, or people that supports him just because he is now ''an outcast''
 

Monte

Founder/Forum Cowboy
Staff member
Site Founder
#4
I mean, most people do not take Alex serious, but some may and I get why there was concern, but that's no reason to remove him.

If we quiet down vocal people they will consider themselves as outcasts and band together with more outcasts that have the same belief which results in a massive **hate** circlejerk.

We need to debate and argument instead of removing these people from the platforms.
otherwise he'll get more followers that ACTUALLY believes in him, or people that supports him just because he is now ''an outcast''
Yup exactly, Jones probably wanted this to happen (maybe besides his YT channel being deleted) he can fundraise like fuck off of it, proves himself right that the establishment is out to silence him, and makes him a martyr
 
#5
Because people have tried to argue or engage him in discourse but he either keeps going or gets proven wrong and moves onto a new topic. This is probably just a case of the straw that broke the camels back.

As for more people following him? I think that would have happened either way, but he'll probably get less followers now that he's not so prevalent on the interwebs. It's probably not a choice they made to curtail his freedom of speech but a move they made in response to some of the things he has said, because remember; It's freedom of speech, NOT freedom from repercussion for what you say.
 

CJTreader

Moderator
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Premium Member
#6
Because people have tried to argue or engage him in discourse but he either keeps going or gets proven wrong and moves onto a new topic. This is probably just a case of the straw that broke the camels back.

As for more people following him? I think that would have happened either way, but he'll probably get less followers now that he's not so prevalent on the interwebs. It's probably not a choice they made to curtail his freedom of speech but a move they made in response to some of the things he has said, because remember; It's freedom of speech, NOT freedom from repercussion for what you say.
When it comes to argument, it's not as much about Jones as it is his fans. He's either an actor playing a role or a legitimately insane person, so of course you're not going to get far with him. However, most of his fans aren't really crazy and can be convinced against following him with the right arguments. Remember that debates are seldom about convincing your opponent and more commonly about convincing the audience. From what I've seen, most respectable outlets that cover him just laugh or scowl at his theories rather than pointing out all times when he's been proven wrong anyways, so I don't really think they've done all they could to convince his followers.

When it comes to him gaining followers, it's hard to foresee exactly how this might go down in the long-term, but I just think it's very unwise for almost every major content distribution site to ban in one fell swoop the man who claims the establishment's out to get him. In addition to legitimizing him to his fans, this also plasters his name and face on every news outlet.

The issue of free speech in this situation is a complex one. I have no doubt that these companies had noble intentions, but even banning him for deplorable speech is inherently about limiting his speech. This will certainly continue and snowball into something much more dangerous. The more people on the fringes like Sarah Jeong and Alex Jones are purged, the more people like James Gunn gets caught in the crossfire. The mob on either side is never satiated. I'd agree that this doesn't violate the first amendment or anything, but if you ask me, it clearly violates the spirit and principal of free speech. When you get to the point where people need to either deeply temper their speech or shut up entirely for fear of their lives being ruined, wouldn't you agree free speech has been totally subverted?
 

Meetch

Known Poster
Rad Member
#7
My only issue is that he's making a martyr of himself

The sites that banned him have rules about conspiracy nonsense. Facebook will delete anything that is considered fake news. None of this is uncommon. Im sure Jones knows that and was just banking on him being banned.

I just love how the Info Wars site has a similar rule in their terms and conditions lol

"its only censorship if it happens to me"
 

CJTreader

Moderator
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Premium Member
#8
My only issue is that he's making a martyr of himself

The sites that banned him have rules about conspiracy nonsense. Facebook will delete anything that is considered fake news. None of this is uncommon. Im sure Jones knows that and was just banking on him being banned.

I just love how the Info Wars site has a similar rule in their terms and conditions lol

"its only censorship if it happens to me"
Just because someone is a hypocrite doesn't mean they're wrong. Really, it doesn't matter if it's rule or if that sort of rule is common. The point is that policies like these really shouldn't be in place.
 

Meetch

Known Poster
Rad Member
#9
Just because someone is a hypocrite doesn't mean they're wrong. Really, it doesn't matter if it's rule or if that sort of rule is common. The point is that policies like these really shouldn't be in place.
I mean he is wrong lol. He's an absolute lunatic. He's wrong by default.

Wait so we shouldn't have rules on websites at all? I don't know about you but I'd rather websites I visit not turn into Gab.AI or 4Chan haha

You can't have free speech without consequences, the world doesn't and has never worked that way. Its just wishful thinking. If I yell "fire" in a crowded building and I get fined for it, its not a free speech issue, im just an asshole.

Jones is just an asshole who spouts nonsense conspiracy theories. I'm all for FREE SPEECH EPIC TIME but absolute nutters shouldn't be sympathized with imo. He got banned. its whatever. I'm not losing any sleep over it. He deserved it lol
 

CJTreader

Moderator
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Premium Member
#10
I mean he is wrong lol. He's an absolute lunatic. He's wrong by default.

Wait so we shouldn't have rules on websites at all? I don't know about you but I'd rather websites I visit not turn into Gab.AI or 4Chan haha

You can't have free speech without consequences, the world doesn't and has never worked that way. Its just wishful thinking. If I yell "fire" in a crowded building and I get fined for it, its not a free speech issue, im just an asshole.

Jones is just an asshole who spouts nonsense conspiracy theories. I'm all for FREE SPEECH EPIC TIME but absolute nutters shouldn't be sympathized with imo. He got banned. its whatever. I'm not losing any sleep over it. He deserved it lol
Of course websites should have some rules, but there's a difference between banning people for threats, harrassment, or calls to violence and banning someone for spreading conspiracy theories and conducting themselves in a you dislike.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Speech clearly isn't free if you're being silenced, or as is the case in most of the world, punished by the government. You could easily use the argument that speech has consequences to jail and effectively silence any and all dissenters. Ultimately, speech is not free if it's silenced, restrained, or punished. The situation of yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater really doesn't have much relevance from my point of view. Of course, it's often necessary to restrict speech which directly causes harm in the real world, but nothing Jones says causes direct harm from my estimation.

I have an issue with what happened to Jones, but if it stopped at him, it really wouldn't be a big deal. But things like this rarely stop.
 

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