What are your thoughts on nationalism?

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CJTreader

Moderator
Staff member
Premium Member
#1
Nationalism is a complex and, if you ask me, widely misunderstood ideology (if you can even call it an ideology). Some people think its simply analogous to patriotism while others see it as the root of every evil from war to racism. Thoughts?
 

Meetch

Known Poster
Rad Member
#3
Every Nationalist I've ever own has gone down the path of White Nationalism, Racism and/or Nazism. That goes for patriotism as well. Obviously my experiences with people isn't evidence of some wider problem, but its still important to remember.

Nationalism is our world has been the product of so much evil and tyranny. I also think that if you're proud of your country (especially with a Western one) its all a bit bland and meh to be honest. The countries we call home here in the West have done terrible and unimaginable evils to other people. I don't like harping on about these kinds of things because people misrepresent it as me blaming myself and other white people of shit that we didn't do.... but I still thinks its important to remind ourselves of it. And because of that, I don't really see being a Patriot as something to be proud of. Its 2 or 3 steps away from being a Nationalist which is 3 or 4 steps away from being a White Nationalist. Which is are two very dangerous positions to hold.
 

CJTreader

Moderator
Staff member
Premium Member
#4
Every Nationalist I've ever own has gone down the path of White Nationalism, Racism and/or Nazism. That goes for patriotism as well. Obviously my experiences with people isn't evidence of some wider problem, but its still important to remember.

Nationalism is our world has been the product of so much evil and tyranny. I also think that if you're proud of your country (especially with a Western one) its all a bit bland and meh to be honest. The countries we call home here in the West have done terrible and unimaginable evils to other people. I don't like harping on about these kinds of things because people misrepresent it as me blaming myself and other white people of shit that we didn't do.... but I still thinks its important to remind ourselves of it. And because of that, I don't really see being a Patriot as something to be proud of. Its 2 or 3 steps away from being a Nationalist which is 3 or 4 steps away from being a White Nationalist. Which is are two very dangerous positions to hold.
Interesting. Even every Patriot you know because a racist/nazi/white nationalism? In America, I would say that at least half of the country is patriotic to some extent, so the concept of patriots becoming nazis is quite foreign to me.

Nationalism has caused quite a bit a strife and suffering. You could say WWII was caused because some ultra-nationalists got their fee fees hurt by WWI. However, I think most conflicts commonly attributed to nationalism could be better explained by simple and inevitable aspects of human nature like greed and the lust for power. For instance, was WWI caused because the Hohenzollerns and Hapsburgs were just ardent nationalists who wanted to see their borders maintained and expanded, or was it because they were monarchs who wanted to expand their own power, prestige, and wealth? I'd suggest it was more likely the letter. And if you want to go full anti-nationalist and establish a centralised global government, I just think that would backfire and cause increased xenophobia and wild ultra-nationalism.

When it comes to our countries doing horrible things, that's very true, but I see it as more of a human thing than a western thing. Look at the Armenian Genocide by the Ottomans or the atrocities committed by the Japanese against the Chinese. Or maybe the barbaric conquests executed by both the Mongols and the Aztecs, which, in the case of the Aztecs, was followed by the enslavement and brutal sacrifice of captured civilians. Then there's the Kongolese king getting rich and fat off of the backs of captured slaves before european contact. In short, western nations have committed many indefensible atrocities, but I really don't think it's a unique phenomenon.

My theory about why patriotism can apparently so easily transfer to ultra-nationalism is simply that people can't handle the cognitive dissonance. I can easily say, "I love America, but what we did to the Native Americans was horrific", but that's really hard for some people. People just don't like the slightest bit of nuance in their worldview. They want absolute consistency when it comes to big things like patriotism. That's why I think it's so common to see libertarians flip to anarcho-capitalism: it's hard to reconcile the necessity of things like government-funded roads and police and your fervent view that government action is basically always a bad thing.
 

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